Thursday, May 01, 2008

"FN" 5.7 Pistol & More

FN Five-seven


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Five-seveN
The FN Five-seveN USG with light
The FN Five-seveN USG with a SureFire light.
Type Semi-automatic pistol
Place of origin Flag of Belgium Belgium
Production history
Designed 2000
Manufacturer FN Herstal
Produced 2000–present
Variants See variants
Specifications
Weight USG: 617 grams (1.36 lb)
IOM: 590 grams (1.30 lb)
Length 208 millimetres (8.19 in)
Barrel length 122 millimetres (4.80 in)
Width USG: 39 millimetres (1.54 in)
IOM: 35 millimetres (1.38 in)
Height USG: 137 millimetres (5.39 in)
IOM: 145 millimetres (5.71 in)
Cartridge 5.7x28mm
Action Delayed blowback
Effective range 50 metres (54.68 yd)
Feed system 10 or 20-round detachable box magazine
Sights fixed and adjustable; square rear notch, vertical front post

The Five-seveN is a semi-automatic pistol manufactured by Fabrique Nationale de Herstal (FNH). It's name is derived from the unique ammunition it uses.

FN created the new 5.7x28mm cartridge for its FN P90 personal defense weapon to meet NATO requirements released in 2000. Subsequently FN created the Five-seveN pistol to offer agencies who adopt the P90, which is a side arm chambered for the same cartridge.

Contents

Overview

Conventional side arms usually use the 9x19mm Parabellum, .45 ACP, and similar cartridges and are designed to neutralize unarmored targets. However, FN argues that these bullets can be defeated by a light Kevlar vest, such as those in use by more than half the world's armed forces and an increasing number of criminals. FN claims that their newly designed 5.7x28mm cartridge allows the Five-seveN to pierce the older U.S. Army PASGT vest at 300 meters range, and a U.S. Army PASGT helmet at a range of 240 meters. However, these penetration statistics are for the military SS190 cartridge. Other available cartridge variants are not armor-piercing, according to the BATFE. These cartridges are loaded with heavier, expanding projectiles driven at lower velocities.

FN markets the 5.7 mm round as being able to penetrate and incapacitate an enemy, but there has been controversy over these claims. Conventional hollow point bullets rely on expansion to create a large wound channel, but the Five-seveN's ammunition is designed to hit, travel a few inches, then tumble end over end without deforming. This means that the wound it creates would be as tall as the length of the projectile (more than 21 mm), supposedly creating a more grievous wound channel, but without the expansion of a hollow point or the fragmentation of a frangible bullet. As a result, FN claims the round—and the Five-seveN—are suitable for military use.

The advantages of the pistol itself include its weight (the 5.7 mm round weighs half as much as a standard 9 mm round), its recoil (FN claims the 5.7 mm round produces roughly half the felt recoil of a 9 mm round), and its 20-round magazine, which holds significantly more ammunition than other pistols. Despite its magazine capacity, the Five-seveN is a light pistol, weighing 726 g (1.6 pounds) loaded. It is also reasonably compact.

Though an effective weapon, the Five-seveN has not been widely adopted, due mostly to the rather unconventional concept and ammunition. Current users include several international special forces/counter-terrorist groups (including the French GIGN) and a large number of local police department SWAT teams (including some in the United States).

Variants

Five-seveN

The original Five-seveN is now discontinued. It has a double action only (DAO) trigger and no safety. This makes shooting slower and less accurate than with the newer single action variants of the Five-seveN. It features a shaped trigger guard, designed to facilitate gloved use.

Five-seveN Tactical

This model is identical to the original version, with the exception of the single action (SA) trigger and a safety device. The Five-seveN Tactical is also increasingly hard to find.

Five-seveN IOM

The IOM model (for Individual Officer's Model) was the first publicly available variant, debuting commercially in 2004. The IOM is similar in its basic design to the original versions, but differs in that it has a different accessory rail, lined trigger guard outside edge, and adjustable sights. It also incorporates a magazine disconnect—this safety mechanism prevents the weapon from being fired without the magazine inserted.

Five-seveN USG

The most recent version of the Five-seveN, the USG. (United States Government) variant debuted in 2005 and replaced the IOM. The USG keeps the differences incorporated in the IOM, such as the magazine disconnect and adjustable sights, but has further modifications, including: conventionally-shaped (square) trigger guard, checkered grip pattern, and a larger, reversible magazine release.

Accessories

All models of the Five-seveN can also be mounted with a laser aiming module (LAM) or a tactical flashlight on the accessory rail. There are various companies that make these devices for various firearms.

A threaded barrel is available for mounting a suppressor. Again, various manufacturers provide their models and variations of suppressors.

FN produces night sights for the DAO and Tactical models. These sights do not fit the IOM and USG models without gunsmithing. Trijicon is slated to produce tritium night sights for the IOM and USG models, but they are not available yet. There are also other companies that produce sights for various pistols that may or may not require gunsmithing.

A magazine extension for the Five-seveN is available that will extend 1.75 inches below the weapon. It allows the Five-seveN to hold ten extra rounds, for a total of thirty.

See also

References

External links

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Five-seven"
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Wednesday, April 30, 2008

STEPHEN CAMP - 38 SUPER & MORE

Corbon .38 Super Ammunition Tests

By Stephen Camp

As mentioned in an earlier piece comparing the .38 Super to 9x19mm, most commercially available loads are little if any hotter than 9mm +P. About the only advantage I can see is that a near identical ballistic delivery is achieved with less pressure using the Super. Winchester's 125-gr. Silvertip hollow point in Super chronographs no hotter than similar loads in 9mm, but the 9mm is at the top of its +P or +P+ pressure capabilities while the Super is not.

In the past I hotrodded 115-gr. Sierra JHP's to velocities in the 1300 to 1400 ft/sec range and fired more than a few through an old Colt Government Model that had been customized and fitted with a BarSto barrel and bushing by gunsmith, Lou Williamson. The factory barrel was the older design, which tried to headspace on the Super's semi-rim and describing accuracy as "lackluster" would be a compliment! With the fitted BarSto, which headspaces off of the case mouth just like .45 ACP, the same loads that produced 10" diameter "patterns" at 25 yards, now produced groups the size of a poker chip at the same distance.

The rapid-expanding JHP handloads were graphically effective on jackrabbits and other such critters and did a good job on coyotes as well.

I've made many mistakes in my life and one of the biggest was selling that gun, at least 10 extra magazines, accompanying reloading equipment, and ammunition to a good friend. He still has that old gun and will not sell it back!

For several years I was without a .38 Super, but rectified that by purchasing a 5" STI Trojan a few years ago. Like the BarSto-fitted Colt, the STI match grade barrel headspaces off of the case mouth and the gun has proven to shoot most .38 Super handloads with very fine accuracy. Likewise, it is has performed well with several boxes of factory ammunition, but due to factory ammunition costs my Super normally gets fed handloaded fodder.

In this caliber I am currently shooting but two loads. One is a ball-replicating 125-gr. handload at about 1200 ft/sec while the other uses either a Hornady 147-gr. XTP or Remington Golden Saber in the same weight. These are driven to just under 1200 ft/sec from the Trojan's 5" barrel. True enough, this is faster than the velocity envelope for which these bullets were designed, but the bullets have performed quite satisfactorily on Texas whitetail deer and a few varmints.

For those interested in these loads, here's a link to more information:

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/38SuperTo9mm.htm

In the future I'll probably try handloading the 115 and 125-gr. JHP's to higher velocities as I did a couple of decades ago.

In the meantime, I want to take a look at some of the faster .38 Super ammunition on the market. It is from Corbon, and bullet weights range from 80 to 125 grains.

From left to right: Corbon .38 Super 125-gr. DPX +P, Corbon 100-gr. PowRball +P, Corbon 125-gr. JHP +P and a handloaded Remington 147-gr. Golden Saber. We'll also take a look at the 80-gr. Glaser Safety Slugs (Blue & Silver) offered in this caliber though they are not pictured. (Externally, the Glaser Silver looks almost identical to the Pow'RBall shown. The Glaser Blue does as well, but has a blue nose plug. The Glaser and Pow'RBall may resemble each other, but they have dissimilar expansion characteristics.)

The firearm used in these tests was this STI .38 Super with a 5" barrel.

The test gun is shown here with a box of the 125-gr. DPX ammunition.

Shooting: Shooting was done at distances of 15 and 25 yards. It was done using a two-handed hold with my wrists supported while seated. There was no effort made at "practical" type shooting. I simply wanted to see if the ammunition would group. If I miss, I want to know that I missed and not the gun/ammo combination.

The exception to shooting at 25 yards was the Glaser. I simply didn't have enough of this ammunition to shoot at that distance and complete the chronograph and expansion testing I wanted to do. It was fired only at 15 yards.

Here are some selected targets.

Here we see that Corbon's 125-gr. JHP +P groups well. It expands aggressively when fired into super-saturated newsprint. These bullets do sometimes fragment not only in test media, but in animal tissue as is evidenced by recovered 115-gr. Sierra PJHP bullets taken from coyotes. I have not shot anything with Corbon's 125-gr. JHP +P, but expect similar performance since Sierra makes the bullet used in this load. The 100-gr. Pow'RBall grouped almost identically at this distance and was on par with the DPX ammo at 25 yards.

Corbon's 125-gr. DPX +P grouped nicely at 25 yards. Both their 100-gr. PowRball and 125-gr. JHP+P grouped just as well. The POI for the Pow'RBall was slightly lower, but not by as much as expected. For my eye and my hold, it seemed to hit about 2 to 3" lower at this distance.

At both 15 and 25 yards, Pow'RBall showed itself a very capable performer from the STI with regard to accuracy. The expanded Pow'RBall bullet was recovered from super-saturated newsprint. Expansion characteristics of all of the Corbon .38 Super ammunition fired will be discussed later.

I could not do any 50-yard shooting due to that range being used by several others, but I do believe that this ammunition is capable of producing plenty good accuracy at that distance if the shooter is. In any event, all of the ammunition proved capable of nice groups from the STI.

For those remembering sometimes-mediocre accuracy with early Glaser Safety Slugs, that has long since been corrected. The lead shot used for the core of this pre-fragmented bullet is now compressed into a more solid core. Bullet weight is much more uniform and I've seen it produce very good accuracy in both 9mm and .38 Super.

Bullet Differences in Corbon's .38 Super Ammunition: Very different bullets are used in Corbon's different lines of ammunition, so let's take a look at each, their characteristics, and how they work.

Glaser Safety Slug: Invented over 30 years ago, the Safety Slug has gone through some significant changes. Though it still remains a pre-fragmented bullet, steps have been taken to make this specialty round more consistent bullet-to-bullet and more accurate. The bullet profile is that of a jacketed round nose to insure feed reliability in a wide number of pistols. The shot pellets are no longer "loose" within the jacket. Instead, they are tightly compressed. The compressed lead shot mimics a solid lead core bullet. Instead of what would be lead on a jacketed soft point, the Glaser has a polymer tip instead. The Safety Slug has a skived jacket to help insure that it literally shreds itself in "soft targets."

There are two types of Safety Slugs at the present time. One is called Glaser Blue and the other, Glaser Silver. The blues have a blue nose plug while the silvers have one that is gray. The nominal velocity on either is listed at 1700 ft/sec from a 5" barrel. The Glaser Blue uses #12 shot and is reported to penetrate between 5 and 7" of 10% ballistic gelatin after passing through 4 layers of denim. Glaser Silver uses larger #6 shot and penetrates 8 to 10" in ballistic gelatin using the same protocol as Glaser Blue.

In the calibers for which the Safety Slug is offered, bullets are light for that caliber and driven to extremely high velocities. Many, but not all, have +P designations. Both the Blue and Silver in .38 Super designated +P.

The idea is that the Glaser Safety Slug begins to deform and come apart shortly after penetration begins in tissue. The bullet's rapid deformation might better be referred to as disintegration as the bullet jacket shreds itself and shot begins to tear a myriad of small wound channels. In ballistic gelatin, the temporary cavity produced by the Safety Slug looks similar to the profile of an onion; it's more "ball shaped" than is produced by most expanding bullets.

Shown on the left is the Glaser Silver and next to it is a Glaser Blue. The different colored polymer nose plugs indicate different shot sizes. I have no idea why one uses a nickel-plated case and the other does not, but noted no difference in reliability.

The Glaser is designed not to completely penetrate a human being, assuming a decent torso hit. It also has less ricochet potential than most other bullets. Unless striking a hard surface at a very shallow angle, this stuff just self-destructs. It is probably less likely to penetrate apartment walls as a single 80-gr. projectile, thus reducing danger to innocents in the event of an errant shot.

In the past, great claims have been made concerning the Glaser's "stopping power" potential. These days, opinions are mixed. Some believe that its high velocity and rapid "energy dump" contributes to a very effective round. Others express concerns about too little penetration. I think that the truth lies somewhere in between.

I have no actual first-hand experience with the Glaser on human beings nor have I visited with anyone who has. I have shot a number of small animals and two coyotes with the Glaser Blue. (The Silver did not exist at the time that I shot these animals.) On rabbits, raccoons and coyotes, I found the 9mm Glaser to be effective, graphically so in some instances. On the smaller animals, larger-than-normal entrance wounds were readily visible and it was not unusual to see hemorrhaging from about every body orifice. The one coyote I hit with it was while varmint calling and he was shot directly behind the shoulder at about 15 yards. He simply collapsed and kicked his hind legs a few seconds.

The only other coyote I killed with this load was while in police service. One had been hit by a car but was still alive. It was sitting up on its hind legs but its back must have been broken as it could only drag itself along with its front legs. This was in the wee hours of the morning. When my duty-bound-follow-the-rules call for animal control to come and dispatch the animal took more than a half-hour, I used a 9mm Glaser from my Browning to put a humane end to this animal, deciding to "take the heat" rather than let it suffer. I eased behind the animal and from about 6' shot it in the back of the head with a Glaser Blue. (I'd removed the more conventional JHP and used the Blue to limit penetration as much as possible since I was within the city and in front of an apartment complex. At the shot, the animal just fell over. Its eyes were blown out of the sockets so I believe that the brain was probably pulped and the rapid expansion of liquid and semi-liquid tissue created a significant pressure peak in the animal's skull.

So how does this equate to stopping a grown man determined to kill you? I am not sure. I think that with a straight and unobstructed center chest hit, the Glaser would be effective. I have no way to know if it would be more or less effective than an expanding hollow point given the same hit, but I do believe that one would not have overpenetration concerns.

On the other hand, the Glaser might very well give up a good deal of its effectiveness if it had to pass through an arm on the way to the torso! For this reason, the Safety Slug is not my first choice in ammunition for self-protection. Were I going to use the Glaser, I believe I'd go with the Silver whenever possible.

Jacketed Hollow Point: Corbon has two JHP loads in .38 Super and both are +P. They use the very aggressively expanding Sierra Power Jacket Hollow Point in 115 and 125 grains. They are rated at 1425 and 1325 ft/sec, respectively and the bullets are available from Sierra for handloaders.

I have used Sierra hollow points from the time that they were called Jacketed Hollow Cavity bullets, through their change to hollow point and to this final version, which has been available for several years. These bullets have large hollow cavities, blunt noses, and skived jackets.

I've used Sierra PJHP bullets in several calibers, but have probably fired more of it in 9x19mm than any other. Both the 115 and 125-gr. PJHP bullets have proven themselves capable of very good accuracy and at Corbon's velocities, they will expand violently in soft targets. In my observation, they are also likely to have some fragmentation. Jacket separation from the expanded lead core is not unusual.

In .38 Super I'd expect the faster 115-gr. PJHP to penetrate between about 10 to 12" and about the same for the 125-gr. version. These are such rapid-expanders that I've seen nearly identical penetration for both versions in either super-saturated newsprint or water. On animals, I can tell no difference.

Once again, the main concerns expressed by some with this ammunition is lack of penetration. I'm not sure how valid these complaints are, but they're certainly there.

I know one man who has used the 9mm Corbon 115-gr. JHP +P on two men. His pistol was a Glock 19. One man was double-tapped in the chest and dropped, never to stand again while the other was hit in the head. I would expect the Super to have done as well or maybe better, but can only guess since shootings with this caliber are just not that common.

My friend (the one who won't sell the Colt back to me) has cleanly taken a few Texas whitetail deer with it over the years. One was very close when he shot it in the head. He mentioned that the eyes left the sockets in this instance too. Another close range broadside shot got him a nice doe. At the hit, she fell and kicked a few seconds and was gone. The bullet did not exit.

To me, the main area for concern with this JHP is its shape. Some guns simply will not feed them reliably due to their blunt ogive and correspondingly shorter cartridge LOA. Others gobble them up as smoothly as FMJ rounds.

If a person wants a low to moderate-penetration and aggressively expanding load in Super, these would be the place to look. A benefit for reloaders might be using Sierra's exact same bullet to construct practice ammunition loaded to around the same speeds as the factory Corbon ammunition.

Though I prefer just a bit more penetration, I would not feel ill at ease using Corbon's JHP ammo in either 9mm or .38 Super. I'd probably opt for the 125-gr. version even though I'm not convinced that it penetrates significantly deeper than the 10-grain lighter bullet.

Pow'RBall: This is a relatively new design, but one that predates Corbon's DPX line of ammunition. The Pow'RBall was developed to insure reliable feeding, something that could be a problem with the Corbon JHP ammunition. If a pistol will feed ball, it should feed Pow'RBall.

These bullets will be light for caliber. I suspect this is due to the polymer nose plug. The volume it occupies would be of much heavier lead in a conventional bullet. These jacketed, lead core bullets resemble the Glaser Safety Slug externally.

Pow'RBall has a massive, wide V-shaped hollow cavity which is covered by a gray-colored polymer nose plug. It does not clog with material when penetrating the 4-layers-of-denim protocol and is designed to penetrate at least the FBI-mandated 12" of ballistic gelatin. My STI Trojan in .38 Super is a picky feeder when using blunt-nosed expanding ammunition. It feeds Pow'RBall without any problems whatsoever.

I have not seen Pow'RBall used on any animals so I can offer nothing there, but in various media I've shot, it has consistently expanded aggressively and penetrated deeper in super-saturated newsprint than with the JHP's. This proved true with the .38 Super as well.

As you can see, Pow'RBall closely resembles the Glaser Safety Slug externally. Internally it is entirely different.

DPX: This is the newest line of Corbon ammunition and it's available in many calibers. In .38 Super, the solid copper bullet weighs 125-gr. DPX stands for Deep Penetrating X-bullet. Barnes makes the X-bullet, a version of which has long been familiar to rifle hunters. In the rifle version, the bullet expands via four "petals" creating an "X". The pistol ammunition expands using 6 petals.

Characteristics of the X-bullet include penetration greater than that normally associated with a conventional bullet of the same weight. There is also no jacket/core separation and the reason is simple; there is no jacket to separate! In pistol calibers, DPX has also proven itself to be a very, very consistent expander whether striking bare gelatin, or having to punch denim, sheet steel, or other barriers before impacting the gelatin.

Because copper is much less dense than lead, X-bullets will normally be lighter than traditional bullet weights in a given caliber, but can sometimes get to at least the low end of these weights depending upon the caliber and case capacity. With the .38 Super, this has been the case and the bullet weighs 125 grains. In .45 ACP, about the heaviest is 185-gr.

It should also be noted that DPX is not necessarily loaded to the highest possible velocities. It is loaded to velocities resulting in best bullet performance.

The more flattened primer on the left is from Corbon's 125-gr. JHP +P. On the right we see the primer from the Corbon DPX, which does not exhibit the same flattening. I have no idea why one load uses Winchester cases and the other, Remington.

I've tried Corbon's DPX in several calibers. In my own informal expansion tests, they have definitely proven consistent expanders. They have also proven very accurate.

Here is the .38 Super DPX. Shown with the loaded cartridges are two of the five recovered bullets that were fired into super-saturated newsprint. These two are the most dissimilar of the bunch. You can see that the X-bullet reacts very uniformly. The .38 Super DPX has a rounded bullet ogive similar to the Remington JHP, but a wider hollow cavity, which makes it more blunt. Still, it should be a reliable feeder in most .38 Super pistols.

Chronograph Results: Ten rounds of each load were fired with the muzzle of the pistol 10' from the chronograph screens.

Corbon .38 Super Chronograph Results (ft/sec):

Load:

Average Velocity:

Extreme Spread:

Std. Deviation:

Glaser Blue 80-gr.

1682

28

13

Glaser Silver 80-gr.

1729

31

12

Pow'RBall 100-gr.

1529

34

12

125-gr. JHP

1372

26

10

125-gr. DPX

1313

23

9

As can be readily seen, each of these loads was consistent in velocity. It would take a machine rest to determine which is actually the most accurate and that would be absolutely meaningful only for the test gun. Another STI Trojan might very well prefer a different load, but at least in my hands, any of these possess inherent grouping capabilities beyond my skill level.

Expansion and Penetration Comparisons: 5 rounds of each load were fired into a stack of super-saturated newsprint. I cannot say that "my" way of preparing it is the best, but it is the method I use in all my informal penetration and expansion testing. It does not allow as deep of penetration as 10% ballistic gelatin, but in other calibers, the bullets recovered from it have been quite similar to those recovered from animals.

The muzzle of the gun was about 3' from the newsprint. Figures given are the averages of all five rounds individual weights, expanded dimensions, and penetration depths.

Corbon .38 Super Penetration (in.), Expansion (in.) & Recovered Weight (gr.)

Load:

Penetration:

Expansion:

Weight:

Glaser Blue 80-gr.

4.00

N/A fragmented

N/A*

Glaser Silver 80-gr.

4.50

N/A fragmented

N/A*

Pow'RBall 100-gr.

8.50

0.603x0.570x0.303" tall

83.7

125-gr. JHP

7.00

0.555x0.546x0.276"tall

88.1**

125-gr. DPX

9.75

0.509x0.521x0.487"tall***

124.9

*Bits of bullet jacket were recovered, but different sizes for each shot fired. Likewise, pellets were found throughout the "wound track" after about the initial inch of penetration.

**Bits of lead and small portions of bullet jacket were found throughout the JHP bullets' "wound tracts."

***The petals on the DPX were folded rearward and the dimensions given are the recovered average of all five shots. At some point in the DPX bullet expansion, the petals were more extended and for at least that portion of penetration, the wound channel in tissue would likely have been of greater diameter. The bullet may have weighed 124.9 grains before shooting. I don't know, but none of the five rounds fired lost any measurable bullet weight.

In less dense 10% ballistic gelatin, the .38 Super DPX reportedly penetrates about 17" after passing through 4 layers of denim and the petals do not fold rearward as much as they do in my "wetpack" tests.

From left to right: 125-gr. DPX, 100-gr. Pow'RBall, two 125-gr. JHP's, Glaser Blue Safety Slug. One DPX and Pow'RBall bullet are shown because the other four of each were very close. The two JHP's were shown to also show that while pretty consistent in expansion characteristics, bullet fragmentation is evident along the edges. Some believe this is good while others do not. The one Glaser Blue was the least damaged of the five fired. Gathering the shot pellets shown was somewhat tedious and is not all of them. Some were loose in the wetpack "wound tract" while others were stuck a fraction of an inch in the newsprint beyond. This is why I made no effort at weighing them. 80 grains of Safety Slug went in and it's designed to fragment so 80 grains is inside the target, but recovered bullet weight would be meaningless.

Observations: In my all-steel 5" 1911 pattern pistol, none of the loads possessed significant recoil, but the Glaser Safety Slugs "kicked" least of all. I really didn't notice any differences between the rest of the loads fired. Mathematically, they were present, but I couldn't feel them.

There were no malfunctions or failures with the pistol or any of the rounds fired.

So, which is best? For my particular pistol, I 'd go with the Pow'RBall because it fed the smoothest of the rounds designed to expand but not self-destruct as did the Glasers. If my Trojan in .38 Super fed as smoothly as my Hi Powers or Trojan 9mm, I'd go with the DPX. That said, I do believe that there is a possibility of the .38 Super DPX completely penetrating an adult human torso in an unobstructed frontal chest shot. It is also most likely to perform uniformly even if punching windshields, thin sheet steel or other barriers before impacting the target from what others testing it report. Law enforcement personnel and some private citizens in high-risk occupations involving vehicles might strongly prefer DPX in this caliber.

I believe that any of these loads would prove effective against a non-barricaded felon with a solid chest hit and no obstructions, but in a life-or-death situation, such might not present itself. If a person wanted to find a load "in the middle", I'd once again go with Pow'RBall. I don't think overpenetration is of much concern with this round, but it penetrated a bit more deeply than the JHP's weighing 25 grains more.

If fears of overpenetration were an overriding concern, I'd go with the JHP's. I personally believe that the Safety Slugs just provide too little penetration for anything other than a straight-on frontal shot where no obstructions are guaranteed. Such conditions probably cannot be guaranteed.

Of the commercially available .38 Super ammunition I've seen, the most potent are almost certainly among these.

Assuming a reliable automatic, I wouldn't be too concerned if my gun was loaded with DPX, JHP, or Pow'RBall.

I sure wish my buddy would sell me back that old Colt.

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Posted by at

Monday, April 28, 2008

NEW HK P30 & MORE

WELCOME TO THE NO BS ZONE OF TEDDY JACOBSON

Wal-Mart to log guns sold, then used in crimes

Largest seller of firearms will also videotape all transactions

Changes at Wal-Mart will affect about 1,100 stores that sell firearms.
Carissa Ray / msnbc.com

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GM AUTO PLANTS ARE LAYING OFF WORKERS...WHAT THE WORKERS DON'T KNOW !

Posted By: Striderus <Send E-Mail>
Date: Tuesday, 29 April 2008, 12:55 a.m.

Is that the auto industry is conspiring behind their backs...these layoffs are PERMANENT !

This is called union busting and even the union bosses don't know the full story of the auto industry intent ! They are being deceived by the auto executives.

I have been told by a source high up that the GM plant in Janesville's second shift will be the first of the complete and PERMANENT layoffs. There will be a total shift of the manufacturing of vehicles to foreign countries...guess who ?!

This union busting was put in the fast track by bush 43 and Traitors. Be forwarned, prepare yourselves and families for survival ...all related business that are tied to the auto industry are going to be flushed down the toilet so that their stockholders keep making their profits at your expense.

Now America, WTF are 'we' the people going to do for jobs to pay for the outrageous food, gas, housing prices that these white collared A-holes are shoving down our throats. Where are these high paying jobs that these A-holes lied about years ago...where are they ? They never intended that there ever would be any...it was a scam from the start. they just told you that to give them time to make the move before they pulled the rug out from under your feet ! Now how about all the loans and credit that they conned you into...how are you going to pay for that ? hmmmm????
I have a very crass way of saying what they did but, I will spare you this time with my mouth/finger(s) ... (pun intended)

Sorry but, I have to asked...

And who are you people still going to vote for ??? klintoon ? obama ? cain ? what are you all sick in the heads...the same A-holes that got us in to this in the first place !?

If what I heard is true .... there will NOT be a car or truck built in America sooner than you think..that means say BYE BYE to ALL supporting businesses of the auto industry and ALL or nearly all the businesses that support the employees and their families....food, clothing, housing, gas, etc.

Come on don't lose it now stay with us and FIGHT BACK !

Just like when the school SCUMBAGS tell you that your child is too smart and they need to dope him/her down you need to STAND UP and learn to say NO ! NO ! NO ! ABSOLUTELY NO !

QUIT BEING ASS KISSERS ! Or else you'll be kissing your's good nite and good bye before too long !

I knew about this days ago....and MSM ain't telling the whole TRUTH either ! This is ONE more F*CK you to the US labor force !

ummm ... that means you won't be finding any jobs at MiCkeyDicks either....

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D90B5EA82.htm

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Painted Ceiling In A Smoking Area


UPDATED TUESDAY APRIL 29, 2008
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From www.survivalblog.com

Letter Re: Spare Parts Now Available for XD-45 Pistols

Jim:

You mentioned that spare parts for Springfield Armory XD pistols have been hard to find. That was the case, up until recently. But now spare XD parts are starting to show up at PistolGear.com. Hover you cursor arrow over "Springfield XD" at the bottom of the window that pops up . There should be a line that reads "XD Factory Parts". I just got a whole stack of [factory spare XD parts] in the mail last week. There are still some critical parts that are missing, such as the extractor. I have done a lot of business with them and talked to the owner Tom a good deal, good fast service and sounds like a pretty good guy.

My first XD has over 40,000 rounds through it without cleaning and it functions perfectly. They are just as tough as a Glock, just as easy to field strip, but a bit more difficult to detail strip. Overall, it is a great pistol. - Regards, - Bert M.

JWR Replies: That is great news! Consider the proviso that I mentioned yesterday, withdrawn. I can now without reservation endorse the XD pistol as a primary pistol for the long term survival firearms batteries of SurvivalBlog readers.

At this point, I am sorely tempted to sell off my stainless steel Colt M1911s and replace them all with XD-45 pistols. I now recognize that I could get better reliability and nearly twice as many guns for the money that I'd net from selling my used Colts! (A stainless steel Colt Gold Cup .45 now sells for around $1,200. Yikes!) The only remaining issue is that I have 35 years of training invested in the M1911 platform. I will do some extensive testing of an XD-45 and let you know what I decide. Oh boy, am I tempted!

I must reiterate that Front Sight's "Get a Gun" training and gear package offer is available only for a limited time. I most strongly recommend that SurvivalBlog readers take Naish Piazza up on his offer before he cuts off further enrollments. (They only have a limited quantity of guns and gear available for this "package" deal. This is a tremendously generous offer. As near as I can figure, Naish is offering the package at near his cost, as an inducement to get shooters to come and take their first course at Front Sight. Once someone takes a course there, they are "hooked" and keep coming back for more--the the training there is that good. The Memsahib and I can vouch for that personally. We were astounded at the quality of the training. I learned more in four days at Front Sight than I had in the 35 years of my previous pistol shooting experience. I'm not kidding.

OBTW, I note that in addition to Springfield Armory factory spare parts, PistolGear.com also sells a wide range of aftermarket parts and accessories for XDs. And anyone that needs more details on XD pistol should check out the XD Talk Forums.

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An Ally Slips Away - "PAKISTAN"


By Joel Hilliker

Pervez Musharraf hasn’t exactly been America’s most dependable ally. But in a region seething with anti-Americanism and hostility against the “war on terror,” the Pakistani president’s open support for Washington has been pretty remarkable. Facing intense public disapproval in the world’s second-most-populous Muslim country, he has allowed the United States to conduct military operations and air strikes against terrorist targets in Pakistan and provided intelligence and operational assistance. For his efforts, the U.S. looked past his warts—and awarded his country with billions of dollars.

But as of right about now, this alliance is in serious jeopardy.

For the U.S.—and all those not interested in the Taliban taking back control of Afghanistan—this is bad, bad news. For anyone not excited to see nuclear weapons in the hands of Muslim extremists, it rings a warning alarm.

Pakistanis, on the other hand, are ecstatic. In elections on February 18, they dealt a deadly blow to Musharraf by empowering a collection of opposition parties—parties that have since formed a coalition government which promises to restore Pakistan to being a parliamentary democracy. Musharraf’s political opponents are in charge now.

Musharraf himself is calling this the start of a “real democratic era” in his country. Being as how the alliance with Washington only existed because of an autocratic military leader’s willingness to defy the public, this means one thing: America’s need for an ally in Pakistan has smacked headlong into a brick wall of hostile Pakistanis.

Officials are vocally expressing their right to make judgments independent of Washington. In April, Pakistan’s foreign minister made clear that no foreign forces will be permitted to operate on Pakistani soil. U.S. officials, fully aware of the dangers fomenting within Pakistan’s borders, are on the knife’s edge, watching for how Islamabad will confront these dangers. They have good cause to be nervous.

Many observers are noting the far greater complexity that will accompany this “real democratic era.” Musharraf alone ruled everything. By contrast, the new prime minister, Yousuf Raza Gilani, will have to balance competing elements within his coalition against Musharraf (who will remain president) and the Pakistani Army—all while paying heed to the wishes of his people and, to whatever degree he chooses, to those of the U.S. That is quite the tangled political snarl. The White House used to be able to make its requests known with a single phone call to a sympathetic and powerful ear. No longer.

This loss of U.S. influence in volatile Pakistan makes the new prime minister’s strategies for securing his nation incredibly important. Early indications are, those strategies give further cause for concern.

Gilani, while acknowledging the seriousness of the threat of Islamist extremism in his country, advocates addressing it through non-violent means. He proposes to combat radicals primarily through political and economic changes in tribal areas, including better education and more financial aid. He seeks peace with the Taliban. “We are ready to talk to all those people who give up arms and are ready to embrace peace,” he has said. He shouldn’t hold his breath.

The Pakistani Taliban praised Gilani’s gesture, but then laid out its own condition for a dialogue: that the prime minister sever ties with Washington. Our jihad is with America, the Taliban commander, Maulvi Faqir, said, but we’ll fight this government too as long as it remains an ally of the U.S. Chances are, this ultimatum won’t dissuade Gilani from trying to sweet-talk the Taliban into giving up its weapons.

One coalition leader announced that the government will pull out of a district in Pakistan’s North-West Frontier Province where the military has been battling Islamic warriors since November. The New York Times reported that it wants “sustained dialogue that, it hopes, will answer many grievances with the government that have pushed ethnic groups toward the militants” (March 26). What pushes people toward the militants? Grievances with the government? In truth, what pushes people toward the militants is the militants—who aggressively promote their violent anti-Western ideals through every possible means.

Pakistan is a world-renowned incubator of Islamism. Huge swaths of the country are ruled independently by Islamists. The more fragmented, disunited and gridlocked the government becomes, the stronger the Islamists grow.

This change in government could seriously cripple efforts in the “war on terror.” First, there is the prospect of Pakistan’s status as a haven for terrorism to grow. Also, the success of allied efforts in Afghanistan depends in large measure on the ability to seal that nation’s border with Pakistan; that will be far more difficult now.

But beyond these implications is the most dangerous trump card of all. As editor in chief Gerald Flurry wrote in our January issue, “Pakistan also has the nuclear bomb and could be taken over by radical Islam, with plenty of help from Iran. That means it could become a proxy of the Iranian mullahs. This would be the worst possible disaster!”

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I DO NOT PERSONALLY LIKE THIS HK P30 BECAUSE ITS VERY
DIFFICULT FOR A LEFTY LIKE ME TO DECOCK IT. YOU CAN BUY
TWO GLOCK PISTOLS FOR THE PRICE OF MOST HK AND SIG
SAUER PISTOLS. IT IS MY PERSONAL OPINION THAT NOT MUCH
CAN BEAT THE OVERALL PERFORMANCE OF A GLOCK 26, 19, 17,
PARTS AND ACCESSORIES ARE WIDELY AVAILABLE EVERYWHERE.
THIS IS NOT TRUE OF HK AND SIG PARTS. A NEW HK MAGAZINE WOULD
COST YOU APPROX. $50.00 (if you can even find one) AND A NEW
GLOCK MAGAZINE WOULD BE $16.00
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Heckler & Koch P30


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Heckler & Koch P30

The Heckler & Koch P30V3
Type Semi-automatic pistol
Place of origin Flag of Germany Germany
Production history
Designer Frank Henninger
Manufacturer Heckler & Koch
Produced 2006 to present
Variants see Variants
Specifications
Weight 740 g (without magazine)
Length 177.5 mm
Barrel length 98.0 mm
Width 34.8 mm
Height 138.0 mm
Cartridge 9x19mm Parabellum
Action Short recoil operated, Browning-type tilting barrel, locked breech
Feed system 15 round magazine
Sights Iron sights

The Heckler & Koch P30 is a semi-automatic handgun and a development of the P2000. Early prototypes of the P30 were referred to as the P3000. The pistol is only available in 9x19mm Parabellum and it is unclear if other calibers will be offered in the future. The P30 uses 15 round magazines.

As of fall 2006, the German Federal Customs Administration had procured 13,500 copies of the P30 for its forces, making them the first customer of the P30. Additionally, the Norwegian police has decided in favor of the P30 pistol with an order of approximately 7000 copies.[1]

Contents

Variants

The P30 features multiple trigger variations. And all versions have interchangeable grip panels, ambidextrous slide and magazine release, and a standardized picatinny rail formed on the dust cover.

  • P30 - Safety trigger with concealed cocking piece in the hammer with spur, with de-cocking latch. Constant CDA trigger pull of approx. 20N and defined let-off point.
  • P30V1 - Safety trigger with concealed cocking piece in the hammer without spur, without de-cocking latch. Constant CDA trigger pull of approx. 20N and defined let-off point.
  • P30V2 - Like P30V1, however CDA trigger pull approx. 32.5N.
  • P30V3 - Conventional SA/DA trigger without cocking piece in the hammer with spur and centrally arranged de-cocking latch. This is the most common model, and effectively the standard.
  • P30V4 - Like P30 V1, however CDA trigger pull approx. 27.5N.
  • P30V5 - Conventional DAO trigger without cocking piece in the hammer without spur. Constant DAO trigger pull of approx. 36N.
  • P30V6 - Like P30 V5, however CDA trigger pull approx. 39N.

See also

References

  1. ^ http://www.heckler-koch.de/media/News/P30_PVT_SeptOkt06_engl.pdf

External links

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_P30"
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